How you define “we” is the tricky part here. He never gave a timeline. Technically, we WILL get it through the senate, it just won’t be any time soon. Hell, we might get it through the Wisconsin senate!

Where’s CongressCritter Joe “You Lie!” Wilson when his boorish behavior would be eminently more appropriate?

Explain to me again why it is Obama’s fault that a handful of Democratic Senators won’t support EFCA?

He had a lack of political will during the one opportunity that was available to make it a top priority. That was a failure on his part and he shouldn’t continue to dangle it as any realistic option.

He also accepted Specter with open arms while he openly slaughtered the future of the bill. His argument is that Specter was the critical vote on health care but that’s been proved incorrect. Through all of it Arlan used the line that he’ll support a form of reform but that never happened. Same old republican bullshit: we need to study the problem more.

almost as good as him telling progressives not to give up, what a complete tool

This is the same head-fake script he had Bennet run with the PO.

The point is, it’s transparent and offensive to the section of the base to which it is aimed.

Blech.

Obama was just on the radio saying that the oil has magically disappeared from the Gulf of Mexico. and the fish. and the whales. and the birds. and the dolphins.

We have learned through painful experience that what Obama says has nothing to do with anything.

Did he tell them that he’d keep fighting for the public option too?
That he’ll fight to end both wars?

Does he have fun trolling his base? Does he know that noone will vote for his arrogant ass if he keeps trolling them, selling them out, then pandering to them?

He does not care. He is a one term one percenter. or soon to be one percenter.

I think we here, at least, have got Obama’s number by now. He’s just another puppet of Big Business

My question is this: how did the AFL-CIO receive this wisdom?

Yes, and won’t Obama be surprised when he finds that 75% of his base has mysteriously disappeared beneath the waves too.

“Big Business” of Obama’s nick name for Emanuel.

Puh-leeeze. C’mon, Obama. Get ahold of yourself. take a deep breath. there. now. Before you can “keep fighting” you have to START fighting. Dig? So start.

Explain to me again why it is Obama’s fault that a handful of Democratic Senators won’t support EFCA?

Gladly Bruce.

Since a handful of Democratic Senators along with all the Republican Senators couldn’t defeat EFCA, the fact it has gone nowhere is proof that this is, just like the outcome with respect to healthcare, their choice.

Also, when he campaigns for Senators that are outspoken opponents of EFCA (Blanche Lincoln) doesn’t that make him ripe for being blamed?

Chris Hedges says it best, there was a war for control of the USA govt. and the corporations won.

Obama had a simple mission destroy the Democratic party. (Obama has always been and will always be a TROJAN HORSE)

the comment about supporting EFCA was a direct slap in the face of unions (remember he slap Unions in face earlier this year for supporting Halter)

Obama masters love his Hope A Dope speeches. (Obama masters are the 2% of the USA population he cares about they are also the richest)

We all need to be asking what is going on at HARVARD? What moron would say on national TV that the Gulf Oil Disaster is not that bad, and the oil is all gone? Obama

One would think that David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, would tell Obama to keep the current White House game plan, which is to act like nothing happen in the Gulf of Mexico.

Obama should have said he watches the Jersey Shore, and knows who snookie is, instead of lying to the Democratic base yet again.

Harvard is not what it used to be

Obama was a member of the “New Democrat Caucus”. They are “pro-business” Democrats = pro-corporations = Blue Dogs = Republican Lite.

On behalf of his benefactors, the lying Obama threw EFCA under the bus with malice and intent.

Well done, OFG. HE CAMPAIGNS FOR THESE SCUMBAGS, BRUCE!

My God that man is pure fucking evil. Or arrogant and really believes all those ‘lesser people’ he was speaking to are stupid.

Damn I can’t wait for 2012. I now am looking forward to voting against this asshole more than I was looking forward to voting for him in ’08. Never thought that would happen.

Hey Bruce does Obama support EFCA ?
Just like he supported the PO in Health Care.

You won’t know it by his actions…..suddenly the office of the Prez has no real meaning….unless he wants to kill someone in Yemen or Pakistan….or lock someone up without a trial….the guy who wants to do all those nasty things has no way of convincing Senators of his own party to support something he cares about…..brilliant.

So then why should we vote for this creep again folks ?…cuz he has no real power …….puhleeeeze!

This reminds me of a scene at the end of Romancing the Stone where Ralph (Danny Devito) is being abandoned by his brother Ira who is escaping in his boat. Apparently, no one in labor ever saw this film or made the connection.

Ralph: Come back here, Ira.
Ira: Jump, Ralph.

Ralph: I can’t swim. You know that, Ira.
Ira: I’ll come back for you.

Ralph: You promise?
Ira: I’ll send the boat back for you, Ralph.

Ralph: When?
Ira: Soon.

Ralph: How soon?
Ira: Very soon.

“For Obama to come back two years later and promise the same thing that’s not even possible is offensive.”

Only if he doesn’t deliver. He’s got a 100% failure rate delivering on his promise to deliver EFCA in the past. He’s got a 100% chance to deliver it in the future…if he delivers solid Democratic majorities in Congress this fall. There’s a lot he can do between now and November 2nd. If he does stuff that makes Democrats feel like voting (and of course we’re going to vote for Democrats whether we hate them or not) Democrats will vote. If Democrats vote, Democrats will maintain healthy majorities in both the Senate and the House.

Obama and a Democratic Congress could choose to pass EFCE next year. If Democrats keep their majorities in Congress, if Obama supports it, hell, they’ve got both houses of Congress and the presidency, of course they could pass EFCA.

Oh that’s good.

That’s really good.

I wonder how long many of those applauding today at his words are gonna keep waiting for that boat???

Obama will keep pushing for EFCA like we’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

Look, I could be wrong. Not like it would be the first time. Today. Since dinner. But my view is that if BO had made this an early priority and gotten people in line he would have established himself better as somebody who could have kept them in line for a public option. so why didn’t he? because he didn’t want a public option and he doesn’t want this, either.

You guys are too cruel and cynical. I have it on best authority that Obama has assigned Dawn Johnsen to a special task force on EFCA. It’s as good as done.

Anyone taking bets on Liz?

Yep.

And we all have a better chance of seeing real peace once and for all in the Middle East than we have ever seeing EFCA signed into law.

Re-examine that math.

-There’s 100% failure in the past
-There’s an unknown chance of success in the future, not 100% success as you state.

Taken together, those are crap odds at future success.

just saying…

How long did he wait to recess appoint Becker to the NLRB. Even Justice Roberts agreed that a recess appt was a good idea and Obama still didn’t do it.

Which Blue Dog Senator controls the recess appointment power?

Obama, the perennial scold, treats every one (as Cornell West once described his interaction with Barry) like a “cub scout.” Come November lets see if we behave like ‘cub scouts’ with a case of collective amnesia or hand Mr. Obama a clear message–you’re a liar.

The OP’s transcript indicates AFL-CIO members applauded when Obama said he would fight for EFCA — how obedient of them. Shouldn’t they have booed? Or thrown cream pies or something?

Exactly. A friend, who is a friend of Rep Suzanne Kosmas, attended a meeting – Obama meeting with a Democratic Caucus of the House of Representatives.

A Representative from California, very pointedly asked Obama why he was not providing leadership on the Health Care Public Option when polls has shown that a majority of the public wanted it.

Obama’s reply was that leading on that issue was not his job, it is the job of Congress to put forth the bills.

Sometimes I don’t think that Obama fella is very smart.

They should have.The Union leadership has failed it’s members….They are more interested in WH Friday night “shindigs” than confronting the WH to do the right thing.

They have been co opted just like some of the media personalities on MSNBC…that go out of their way to support the WH.

Only if he doesn’t deliver. He’s got a 100% failure rate delivering on his promise to deliver EFCA in the past. He’s got a 100% chance to deliver it in the future…if he delivers solid Democratic majorities in Congress this fall.

What the hell are you smoking, dude?

Obama’s speeches are pretty much stand-up comedy these days.

As if he worked hard for EFCA?…… what a load of bilge.

When public option was a lock via the 51 vote budget process, he still killed it. His word can no longer be trusted.

Many here have contacts on the Hill and know of WH putting the brakes on every progressive idea in every topic that Obama campaigned on. – We are no longer just fighting the GOP – or the Right – or Blue Dogs, we are fighting Obama, who is not a progressive or a liberal but is a con artist.

Biden as VP is not pushing successfully for Obama to actually get behind progressive ideas – and Rahm and the rest never were progressive. Hillary is center left – she’s a single payer advocate that would not have screwed us on public option – and is tough enough that if VP she would be more likely to move Obama from pure corporate whore to something more reasonable – but she is certainly not a Dennis K or Barney Frank or Sanders – and as VP she’d only have a bit of influence. I think we got conned in 2008 and now lose 8 years as Obama actually tries to decrease progressive influence in the Congress. Tiring and sad so I’m just looking at local races for the next 6 years.

Obama is a one term president.

Do you think he will have a challenger? Like who?

A leader is someone who can get people to do what they normally would not do. Just because we put President before Obama’s name is no reason to believe he is capable of leading. Especially, since all he manges to do is follow the Republican’s lead.

The true leader is the one who manges to yell stop to the mob while they are trying to lynch a man – not the vocal idiot that starts the ball rolling by speaking aloud what weak have rolling around in their sheep-like brains.

Obama denied he knew us more than three times before the cock crowed. He not Peter and the sooner you recognize he is not a rock upon which we can build a successful movement the better.

We should PRIMARY this wanker. He’s walked back every friggin promise he made in 2008. He’s a lying shit bag. I’ll enjoy helping defeat him in 2012.

I don’t know it he will have a challenger. I hope so but don’t see anyone on the horizon except maybe Dean. But I sort of doubt Dean is interested. I think someone from the dark side will win.

I’m not sure I understand the first part of what you wrote.

My recollection of the last 18 months is that the pro-EFCA forces never reached the magic number of 60 votes because a handful of senators who had promised to support it reneged on their promises when it came down to the short strokes (Specter, Lincoln, Feinstein, Landreiu, Nelson).

I don’t blame Obama for being unable to get those dirtbags to vote in favor. I blame those dirtbags for their own conscious choice to abandon us.

The GOP seems to be hellbent on lurching the ship of state rightward into a glacier…I still will not vote for Obama again. If the corporatists are so damned determined to undermine everything this country has developed into that they vote her into office then, they can have her. It’ll be interesting to see the North secede.

Bruce,you do know Obama had no problem appointing a well point executive to manage the Bob Dole health care bill he got pass thru congress.

However, Obama could never appoint Dawn Johnsen, and he probably will not appoint Elizabeth Warren.

Bruce this may all be new to you but Obama really does not like Democrats.

Bruce news flash a lot of the current democrats in the senate lie and play a lot of games, they take turns screwing the democratic base.

But Bruce, don’t you have to acknowledge where labor is on the “priority tree”?

How about Specter and Lincoln for example. WH backs ‘em, and they get a pass on EFCA? Short answer:

He’s not that into you, EFCA.

Ok, two things here.

First of all, 60 votes is not required to pass legislation. The Constitution lists the instances that require a super majority vote and passing legislation is not one of them. The fact they CHOSE to keep playing that kabuki means it is a choice that we the voters can saddle them with. Politicians are responsible for the choices they make.

Also, in terms of cloture votes, which is a procedural vote, there’s a long history of party members honoring their party on procedural votes, and party leaders enforcing such discipline by whatever means necessary. In the past party leaders have let it be known that members could vote the way they wanted on the bill itself, but they’d better follow the party on all procedural votes.

Again, the fact that they didn’t follow this long time precedent was a CHOICE. A choice by party leaders, of which Obama is the Democratic Party leader now (as all Presidents are leaders of their party when elected President).

There is now ample evidence to reveal that they leadership and by and large the Democratic Party as a whole didn’t support the public option, single payer, EFCA, drug reimportation, real financial regulation with real teeth, or climate legislation. They merely like being able to claim they do to us the voters in an attempt to get our support.

So it is up to us to decide whether we will base our support on their words or their deeds. Such as Obama now having the ability to assassinate American citizens. Do you support that? That was all Obama, no Congressional interference at all. Same with continuing rendition and indefinite detentions of folks with no habeas corpus rights, a right recognized by the UN as a basic human right.

Which will it be with you?? Will you base your support on the Obama that says he supports EFCA, says he supports a public option, and says he supports a return to the rule of law??? Or will you base your support on the actions Obama has taken, like choosing to sell out the public option in return for a promise from the insurance industry not to oppose health care reform, or the actions Obama took to kill drug reimportation when they did have the 60 required for that, or the actions Obama has taken to continue to shit on the Consitution and trample on human rights?

It is your choice after all. Good luck with making it. I hope you’ll take the time to look into all evidence to make your decision.

I don’t get it.

Obama is a liar.

Only willfully ignorant and stupid people bother to listen to him.

What’s to debate?

Of course he doesn’t mean anything he says.

Yes, I think about 90 percent of the people who voted for Obama are disappointed in one way or another. I certainly am.

But on the specific issue of EFCA, I’m not sure what anybody here expected him to do. I may be wrong, but I just don’t think he had the juice to bribe or bully his way to 60 votes.

and the fish. and the whales. and the birds. and the dolphins.

What??? Did he forget those Gulf of Mexico walruses and sea otters?

Yup, Obama and the Democrats are like money in the bank!*

* Primarily owned by a handful of very rich people.

Bruce you do know that Obama supported Blanche Lincoln? Blanche is no friend of labor.

Bruce you are trying to avoid the obvious, Obama seems to have no problem fighting for republican ideas.

Chris Hedges pointed out something that we all need to realize, there was a war for the USA govt. and corporations won.

Obama is the ultimate corporate politician. ASK BP

The DNC still can’t believe that 800,000 Democratic voters in Massachusetts stayed home rather than vote for [crap, I can't even remember her name].

Coakley.

Quite so.

I do believe that Obama was sincere in endorsing EFCA, but also that he underestimated the depth of the opposition, and that he has been frightened by the threats he started hearing once he got elected.

So, yes, I concede there is a failure of leadership on his part.

Thank you.

…how did the AFL-CIO receive this wisdom?

Looks like they swallowed it whole.
http://blog.aflcio.org/

Threats Obama started hearing???? what are you talking about? Tell me any instance that you are aware of where Obama put any pressure at all on Blanche Lincoln or any other senator to get them to support EFCA? Not even on a final vote, but just a cloture vote. Did Obama tell Lincoln that if she supported a filibuster on EFCA that he would withdraw ALL support for her in her bid for re-election and support from the DNC as well? No, he didn’t. Well, that’s what he should have been doing. He should have been FORCING dem senators to vote for cloture whether they could vote for final passage of a bill or not. EFCA would have passed. The Public Option would have passed. The only conclusion you can come to is that Obama didn’t want these things to pass anyway.

So, union members, welcome under the bus with the LGBT community. Obama keeps telling us how much he supports our agenda too. Keeps claiming the title of “fierce advocate” deservedly or not and all the while he continues to send his DOJ out to fight against our civil rights.

I blame John Kerry who let him open his mouth at the 2004 Democratic Convention. Had it not been for that, he’d still be trading hog bellies in the Illinois Legislature, and immersing himself in Chicago Politics, probably kissing Richard Daley’s fat ass.

OOT = Obama One Term. As in “get the fuck OOT of here” you lying, corporatist douche.

And we are going to keep on fighting to pass the Employee Free Choice Act. (Applause.) [...]

There was applause, so it looks to me like it wasn’t an insult to the intelligence of everyone it was aimed at. Sad fact is, there will be folks who take this as an actual commitment of some sort.

I’m talking about threats from CoC and NAM and Obama’s Harvard classmates that EFCA would mean open warfare with the business sector. The CoC/NAM threats were quite open, while I am assuming he heard similar threats in private from his rich friends (Hello, Penny Pritzker!).

And no, I am not aware of any direct pressure on Lincoln over EFCA. Nor am I aware of any direct pressure on the other four of five senators who reneged on their EFCA promises.

And I don’t believe Obama could have cobbled together the 60 votes on EFCA. Look, he spent enormous effort to get the 60 on the crappy health insurance bill. Any EFCA bill he might have been to push through would have been so watered down as to be meaningless.

I do believe that Obama was sincere in endorsing EFCA

It is hard to engage with you because you are at a place in your view of Obama some of us dropped 2 years ago and almost everyone else had at the end of the healthcare debate at the end of March of this year. Obama is a sincere Blue Dog status quo corporatist. You understand that and his whole Presidency to date comes into focus. You don’t and you are left zigzagging all over the place trying to explain everything he has done. The truth is when Obama wants something he goes for it. There was a lot of talk about how he let Congress dictate both healthcare and FinReg but at the end of the day, the bills he got were exactly what he initially asked for. Ditto for his wars. You should also look at what he does in role as Chief Executive, the government’s fighting every habeas petition from Guantanamo, his maintenance and expansion of domestic spying programs begun under Bush, his choice not to investigate anyone in the last Administration or any of the Wall Street banksters. These are all things he could have done on his own. Yet he did not.

The only reason Obama mentioned EFCA now is because there is an election in 3 months. Time to make some empty promises to the rubes. In my book, that is about as far from sincerity as you can get.

You are correct. Good point. If not for that barnburner speech at the Kerry Convention (overshadowing Candidate Kerry), Obummer would not be bumming us out. Hillary (Clobber Iran Now) would.

Good job on clean-up detail, Hugh. That’s about the size of it.

you’re right. You aren’t aware of any pressure being put on the senators because there wasn’t any. And, in regards to your belief that Obama could not have gotten 60 votes, we will NEVER KNOW, because he gave up without ever trying. Again, the only rational conclusion to make is that he didn’t try, because he didn’t want those things in the first place.

Oh, of course, how could I have been so blind!!

Obama is an evil genius who have been deceiving us all for years with the nefarious goal of establishing a corporatist state with secret connivance of the inner Republican circle, sort of like the Bilderbirgers.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If you’re going to ignore all the evidence in terms of his actions and merely listen to his purty words then there really isn’t any point in engaging you, although to be fair you do have the right to make your judgement any way you see fit.

As for this funny little anecdote, here’s a serious question. If Obama (or anyone else) REALLY WERE evil geniuses deceiving us all with the nefarious goal of establishing a corporatist state with secret connivance of the inner Republican circle, sort of like the Bilderbirgers, do you think they would announce it on the teevee so as to make our job of realizing it easy?

Or a better question might be, if Obama really does oppose NAFTA in his heart but feels he needs union votes for he and his party, do you think he would tell us that he opposes it and make it easy as opposed to fighting it behind the scenes?

I am a life-long, loyal Democrat and progressive. I no longer believe ANYTHING Obama says in public (no doubt his promises to Big PhRMA and the insurance industry were real — the results of the Health INSURANCE Reform bill are ample testament to that!).

I am a teacher and proud union member, but when Obama spoke to our AFT convention the past few years, he always came by video — he didn’t have the cohones to show up in person.

Obama has not only sold us out on the Public Option, he will continue to sell us out on EFCA as well; but worse, he is all set to sell us out on Social Security when later this year he agrees to raise the retirement age to 70 and cut benefits for seniors.

This man has no conscience. He made so many great promises during the 2008 election season, and then promptly forgot and broke just about every one of them. At this point in his administration, there is no reason to presume he will not continue to do just that with all the rest of the progressive “Change we can believe in” legislation.

Unfortunately, he will never be primaried in 2011/2012 because to do so would be to permanently excise the African-American voter from the Democratic Party, and guarantee a loss in the general to even the nuttiest of the nutjobs of the wingnut party. So unless we want braniac Sarah “palm-reader” Palin as president, we will all be forced to vote for Obama again. Or not.

If he does actually sell us out on Social Security, I will definitely throw him under the bus, even if I have to vote for Palin myself. I will never, NEVER tolerate a “Democrat” destroying Social Security. I have written him and told him as much — not that that will make him sit up and listen. But I am absolutely serious about that. If he will not protect Social Security, we are better off fighting another Republican president like we did with Bush in 2005 (and we won that one). Hope someone in his sell-out administration is listening and stops this train wreck before it jumps the tracks. It’s already careening down the tracks out of control.

And I see by the way that you still haven’t addressed Obama’s continuance of unlimited detention without any habeas corpus rights and told the US Congress that he has the right to assassinate American citizens abroad if he feels they’re a threat? No due process, just someone says he/she is a threat, boom, kill ‘em?

Why do you choose to ignore these issue, which are decisions Obama made himself instead of having to go through the Congress?

And oh yeah, remember his promise to close GITMO? George W. Bush opened GITMO without an act of Congress and Obama can close it without an act of Congress acting, exactly as Bush did, as Commander in Chief. So do his lies about closing GITMO provide evidence to the type of person he is or are we supposed to ignore them?

OldFatGuy, I totally agree with you. (I’m an old fat guy, btw). GITMO is one of the main promises that Obama made running for office that he has so dishonorably broken since taking office. There are a lot of things he could do without Congress, but he chooses to continue lying to us instead. GITMO will still be open for business when Obama leaves office, whether that is in 2013 or 2017. Count on it.

I’m beginning to wonder if Obama is a sociopath. Seriously.

Assassination openly discussed. War crimes. Looking at people squarely in the eyes and lying to them.

WTF is up here?!?

I’m beginning to wonder if Obama is a sociopath. Seriously.

I’ve been convinced he’s a sociopath for a year.

I’m talking about threats from CoC and NAM and Obama’s Harvard classmates that EFCA would mean open warfare with the business sector.

Open warfare with the business sector? Isn’t that what we elected him to do, represent the workers and the common people against the mega-lithic corporations and banks that have screwing us?

Get a grip on reality. He’s a liar. Best right-wing Republican President ever.

But on the specific issue of EFCA, I’m not sure what anybody here expected him to do. I may be wrong, but I just don’t think he had the juice to bribe or bully his way to 60 votes.

Obama was using EFCA as a carrot to keep the union’s backing for HCR.
If Obama had actually cared about EFCA, he could have passed it any time.

Once Scott Brown was elected, he lost the ability to pass it and lost the union’s support. (see Blanch Lincoln.)

but she is certainly not a Dennis K or Barney Frank or Sanders

As if any of them are real progressives?!

Bernie is just as culpable as “Barry” for the lack of a PO. He could have forced a vote on it, using those arcane parliamentary rules, but took a pass.

The pixie from Cleveland was totally against HCR after “reconciliation” … right up until he voted for it.

And “Bahney” had a lip lock on Dodd’s ass as he jumped off the cliff with FinReg. Of course, Chris is “retiring” … probably on the board of Goldman.

Progressivism is dead and buried. “Citizens United! You have nothing to lose but…”

He certainly hovers on the line between arrogance and ignorance.

Very well stated.

barack signaled early on that he wasn’t going to bat for efca.

from a jan 2009 interview:

obama:

I think that the way the Bush Administration managed the Department of Labor, the NLRB, and a host of other aspects of labor management relations put the thumb too heavily against unions. I want to lift that thumb. There are going to be steps that we can take other than the Employee Free Choice Act that will make a difference there.

Who here will be voting outside the two major parties for the presidency in 2012?

A Representative from California, very pointedly asked Obama why he was not providing leadership on the Health Care Public Option when polls has shown that a majority of the public wanted it.

Obama’s reply was that leading on that issue was not his job, it is the job of Congress to put forth the bills.

Do you have a link for what Obama said, or it just hearsay? Sounds like that is something he would say, given his “performance”, but a link would be helpful.

Do you have a link to that interview?

Bernie is just as culpable as “Barry” for the lack of a PO. He could have forced a vote on it, using those arcane parliamentary rules, but took a pass.

Bullshit.

Sorry but a single Independent Senator who’s very committee seats are dependent on working with the Democratic Leadership in place, not as he would wish, is not more powerful than that and a slick talking President who has dupes many people. Bernie did what he could, and then some, I will give him that. You should too.

Lieberman played the solo ‘independent’ card to his $ponsors advantage. Bernie could have, too. He chose not to.

Apparently, progressive pols lack both conviction and balls.

Do not defend them. They did not defend you.

And do not fall prey to caricatures of all Tea Party voters as right-wing ideologues.

They are mostly frustrated–not ideological–by the same things you and I are frustrated about. Obama’s pro-Wall Street fakery is the problem.

It’s the economy stupid–not ‘gay immigrants who want abortions.’

Same bullsh*t, different day. More lies and demonizing Bush and the Republicans is all he’s left with now. This is the guy who just fired Shirley Sherrod and then blamed it on the media. Change is hard when you have no principles character and you’re a lying sack of sh*t.

He didn’t really use effort to pass the health care bill, anymore then he used effort to pass the so-called stimulus. He used delaying tactics until more progressive ideas were killed in the so-called effort to pass these things.

In fact my favorite moment of all that was when he got up and bald faced lied about never campaigning for a public option despite video to the contrary.

In point of fact, he and the democratic leadership didn’t really step up on the health care bill until union members and working class democrats sat out a sure thing election in Massachusetts and then it really did matter. Up until that point, they knew they could have the REAL cloture vote anytime they wanted.

I notice how people bring up Bernie Sanders chairmanship being dependent on his going along. Tell me that again the next time Joe Lieberman is brought into line. Negotiations with blue dogs/corporate whores are give to them and take from the bill. Negotiations with progressives are you are going to give up everything you stand for and vote for this. Mark my words, once the majorities are pluralities we aren’t going to see that dance, we are going to hear from Joe and the rest of the blue dogs about how the President deserves an up and down vote on his agenda. You know when their cloture vote doesn’t mean cloture.

IOW, fighter for EFCA and fierce advocate for LGBT rights Obama still won’t be able to pass a damn thing for the progressive agenda, but the kabuki won’t be quite so ridiculous and blatant. And he will be powerless to protect Social Security and Medicare.

Funny how people are getting it. Someone I talked to only four months ago about the plan to slice and dice Social Security has changed his tune. Then it was “Obama isn’t perfect, but he knows how important Social Security is especially after the financial crash,” and “Democrats would never cut or hurt Social Security”. Now he is posting Social Security facts faster then I am to make sure the propaganda campaign can’t gain traction.

Right….what a joke…maybe if he had Norma Rae as Chief of Staff instead of that foulmouth.

Didn’t NAFTA expressly prohibit union formation?

No

NAFTA did not prohibit union formation.

Harvard is exactly what it used to be. Our country’s over reliance on graduates from Ivy League schools is part of the problem. Getting good grades at a good school is fine but it does not guarantee success in real world situations. If you look at the mess this country is in now many of our problems are a direct result of a decision made by someone with a Ivy League degree. And as far as Obama’s promise to push for EFCA is concerned, I wld hope that someone in union leadership wld tell him to refrain from mentioning the subject since he knows and they know he has no intention to push this thru.

Your read of Dennis K, Barney, and Sanders and Hillaryis not my read based on what I know of their activities on the Hill.

First FinReg was a good bill – Barney proposed a better bill, but blue dogs on his committee prevented much – indeed the amount he got through is amazing given Obama and his Treasury Sec opposing heavy regulation.

Sanders fought to the wire and a bit past on the public option – only after Obama laid down the law with Reid as enforcer (loss of committee, etc) did Sanders stop pointing out we had the votes to pass the public option in the budget supplemental’s 51 vote rule.

Dennis K fought the media battle and was only brought into the “Senate bill as is” passage after promises of public option in the budget supplemental.

Hillary in 93 was the subject of over $2 million in lobbying – of Bill and those around Bill – (I was an indirect payer of that bill in my role of head of Sun Life of Canada US Tax Department) – with our lobbyists promising that the insurance industry would not oppose the heavy regulation (unknown in detail at that point in the lobbying but understood to be much heavier than in Obama’s HCR) so as to get Bill to tell Hillary to stop with single payer – so was convinced to say he was opposed to single payer and that he had a deal with the ins co’s – there’s a short reference to this moment in her book – and I still have a few memos). Despite heavy lobbying of the task force Hillary’s final bill did indeed do heavy regulation of the industry that would have controlled to at least some extent the cost of health care. Hillary is tough and did not roll over for the industry.

While I agree with what you are saying in general, I do not agree on your take on Sanders. From what I’ve seen, he is in it for the very long haul and certain things will simply make him a pariah to the party in power, the Dems, that he needs even more than they need him. Tell me where you see Sanders profiting like these other hacks and sucks then maybe I might consider this POV. For that matter, Kucinick is similar, to Bernie although I did not agree with his reversal, he saw the writing and his stand would not matter to stopping that bill. Maybe DK sold out, but I think he chose to fight another day. Several liberal Dems have “retired” over the last couple of years. I think they see where things are going and just had enough. DK and Sanders have stayed on so that’s something, IMO. BTW, DK did refund my contribution to him for his original HCR stands.

I notice how people bring up Bernie Sanders chairmanship being dependent on his going along. Tell me that again the next time Joe Lieberman is brought into line

You are comparing apples and oranges.

The difference is Sanders opposes many of these corporatist policies of the New Republicans Democrats and must tread carefully. LIEberman serves their needs whenever called on to defeat progressive movement by playing the “spoiler”, willingly and in collusion; he is rewarded with the very powerful Homeland Security oversight committee for doing basically nothing Democratic.

“Hillary is center left – she’s a single payer advocate that would not have screwed us on public option …”

You’re fantasizing. Hillary Clinton has never been an “advocate” of single payer anymore than Barry was. Acknowledging it might be the best system and then rejecting it as unfeasible and working against it is not “advocating.”

Here’s the problem with contemporary liberalism in a nutshell:

And we are going to keep on fighting to pass the Employee Free Choice Act. (Applause.) [...]

Applause? They should have booed and shouted “Liar!”

Exactly. Incredible how so many people accept this shit.
Insane, pathetic, lost in the forest people.

I shudder when I hear Dem party supporters allude to the bottom line of their reasoning; We gotta support them. They have no choice, poor critters. Democrats HAVE to sell us out in order to get enough corporate cash to win.

Masochists.

Berniue is full of shit.
Maybe you aren’t aware of his little junket to Florida a few weeks before the final vote. Yeah, he and a handful of other shills like Menendez went down to party with some healthcare CEO’s.

Wake up,they are all bought off.

I don’t ignore these basic human rights/civil rights issues, I was just limiting my comments to the politics of EFCA for the purposes of discussing Michael Whitney’s piece.

I emphatically DO NOT defend Obama on the whole suite of issues rooted in the “War on Terror.” One of the main reasons I voted for him was he promised to end the Iraq War and close Guantanamo, so I am one of the millions of Americans who are pissed off that this hasn’t been done.

And I respect your view that all of Obama’s policies are of a piece i.e. that he essentially endorses that status quo on most important issues. I am closer to that view myself than you might imagine.

It has been my contention for a long time (and there is little I have read here today that changes that) that EFCA failed because the labor movement itself could not deliver on the “loyalty” of elected officials — particularly a small group of Democratic senators — when the time was right. In other words, it wasn’t Obama’s fault that EFCA failed.

Employee Free Choice Act was never a good idea.

Transcript.
Audio (or video).

It had strong and weak points. It was a poorly ran campaign but overall it would have helped the cause of organizing workers into local unions.

Some interesting discussion on this theme between labor historians Lichtenstein and Duyboksy at http://dissentmagazine.org/